Still not the best beer commercial every made, but up there....
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Newcastle - No Bollocks
Monday, July 23, 2012
Saturday, July 14, 2012
Am I emergent enough? -- Part 2
A second (and, I think, better) test of whether a Christian is "emergent enough" comes from the book Why We're Not Emergent: By Two Guys Who Should Be by Kevin DeYoung, Ted Kluck, and David Wells. These guys don't like something about emerging Christianity (okay, several things, like emerging Christians' tolerance for doctrinal liberalism, etc.). But their test is pretty good (and kinda funny). Here are some of my favorite questions:
You might be an emergent Christian if:
1. you listen to U2, Moby, and Johnny Cash’s Hurt (sometimes in church)...
Johnny Cash, yes. Not usually in church. Have been pushing for more bluegrass in church.
2. use sermon illustrations from The Sopranos...
No.... But Family Guy, yes.
3. drink lattes in the afternoon and Guinness in the evenings....
OMG, they're watching me.
4. and always use a Mac...
No, but I do have an iPhone and an iPad. I also came form Chicago where every Episcopal priest had a Mac except me.
5. your reading list consists primarily of Stanley Hauerwas, Henri Nouwen, N. T. Wright, Stan Grenz, Dallas Willard, Brennan Manning, Jim Wallis, Frederick Buechner, David Bosch, John Howard Yoder, Wendell Berry, Nancy Murphy, John Franke, Walter Winks and Lesslie Newbigin (not to mention McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, etc.) and your sparring partners include D. A. Carson, John Calvin, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, and Wayne Grudem...
There's a lot of names in that list, some of whom I have no knowledge. But Lesslie Newbigin is my absolute favorite and I also like McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, N.T. Wright, Walter Wink.... So....
6. your idea of quintessential Christian discipleship is Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, or Desmond Tutu; if you don’t like George W. Bush or institutions or big business or capitalism or Left Behind Christianity; if your political concerns are poverty, AIDS, imperialism, war-mongering, CEO salaries, consumerism, global warming, racism, and oppression and not so much abortion and gay marriage....
Yep! Except that gay marriage is a big concern because I'm for it.
7. you talk about the myth of redemptive violence and the myth of certainty...
Indeed. I mentioned this to Bishop Jeffrey Lee (the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Chicago), who was a little shocked that this might be a sticking point for someone...
8. you love the Bible as a beautiful, inspiring collection of works that lead us into the mystery of God but is not inerrant...
Perhaps you can now see where their critique is going.
9. you search for truth but aren't sure it can be found...
Guilty.
10. if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths...
Now they're getting snarky.
11. you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naive, and rigid...
Definitely.
12. you support women in all levels of ministry, prioritize urban over suburban, and like your theology narrative instead of systematic...
Oh, no you di'n't.
13. you want to be the church and not just go to church...
Want it? I long for it. I crave it.
14. you believe who goes to hell is no one’s business and no one may be there anyway...
Yeah, I believe love wins.
15. you believe salvation has a little to do with atoning for guilt and a lot to do with bringing the whole creation back into shalom with its Maker...
Gosh, sounds like Paul, John of Patmos, John 1, Revelation....
16. you believe following Jesus is not believing the right things but living the right way...
Sounds like Matthew 25 and a million other things in Scripture.
17. it really bugs you when people talk about going to heaven instead of heaven coming to us...
Oh that pesky Revelation 21....
Am I crazy? Is this all so wrong?
(Taken form http://www.challies.com/quotes/quote-you-might-be-emergent-if)
You might be an emergent Christian if:
1. you listen to U2, Moby, and Johnny Cash’s Hurt (sometimes in church)...
Johnny Cash, yes. Not usually in church. Have been pushing for more bluegrass in church.
2. use sermon illustrations from The Sopranos...
No.... But Family Guy, yes.
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| I'm blogging right now... |
3. drink lattes in the afternoon and Guinness in the evenings....
OMG, they're watching me.
4. and always use a Mac...
No, but I do have an iPhone and an iPad. I also came form Chicago where every Episcopal priest had a Mac except me.
5. your reading list consists primarily of Stanley Hauerwas, Henri Nouwen, N. T. Wright, Stan Grenz, Dallas Willard, Brennan Manning, Jim Wallis, Frederick Buechner, David Bosch, John Howard Yoder, Wendell Berry, Nancy Murphy, John Franke, Walter Winks and Lesslie Newbigin (not to mention McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, etc.) and your sparring partners include D. A. Carson, John Calvin, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, and Wayne Grudem...
There's a lot of names in that list, some of whom I have no knowledge. But Lesslie Newbigin is my absolute favorite and I also like McLaren, Pagitt, Bell, N.T. Wright, Walter Wink.... So....
6. your idea of quintessential Christian discipleship is Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, or Desmond Tutu; if you don’t like George W. Bush or institutions or big business or capitalism or Left Behind Christianity; if your political concerns are poverty, AIDS, imperialism, war-mongering, CEO salaries, consumerism, global warming, racism, and oppression and not so much abortion and gay marriage....
Yep! Except that gay marriage is a big concern because I'm for it.
7. you talk about the myth of redemptive violence and the myth of certainty...
Indeed. I mentioned this to Bishop Jeffrey Lee (the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Chicago), who was a little shocked that this might be a sticking point for someone...
8. you love the Bible as a beautiful, inspiring collection of works that lead us into the mystery of God but is not inerrant...
Perhaps you can now see where their critique is going.
9. you search for truth but aren't sure it can be found...
Guilty.
10. if you’ve ever been to a church with prayer labyrinths...
Now they're getting snarky.
11. you grew up in a very conservative Christian home that in retrospect seems legalistic, naive, and rigid...
Definitely.
12. you support women in all levels of ministry, prioritize urban over suburban, and like your theology narrative instead of systematic...
Oh, no you di'n't.
13. you want to be the church and not just go to church...
Want it? I long for it. I crave it.
14. you believe who goes to hell is no one’s business and no one may be there anyway...
Yeah, I believe love wins.
15. you believe salvation has a little to do with atoning for guilt and a lot to do with bringing the whole creation back into shalom with its Maker...
Gosh, sounds like Paul, John of Patmos, John 1, Revelation....
16. you believe following Jesus is not believing the right things but living the right way...
Sounds like Matthew 25 and a million other things in Scripture.
17. it really bugs you when people talk about going to heaven instead of heaven coming to us...
Oh that pesky Revelation 21....
Am I crazy? Is this all so wrong?
(Taken form http://www.challies.com/quotes/quote-you-might-be-emergent-if)
Am I emergent enough?
I definitely think of myself as an emergent Christian somewhere along the lines of the "new Christians" or "missional Christians" that Brian McLaren, Phyllis Tickle, Tony Jones, et al. are talking about. I'm all about new ways of framing and asking old questions about the Christian faith. (N.B., I happen to think that many of the "old" answers still apply. The Gospel is still the Gospel after all. Yet, it is incarnate in a new world, a new culture, a new framework.)
I might even prefer to talk about myself as an "emerging Christian" along the lines of the way philosophers of mind talk about consciousness as an emerging quality. Unconscious cells--or whatever--interacting in a particular way give rise to consciousness. Consciousness, some of them argue, is an emerging quality. Non-living things--chemicals, DNA, whatever--interacting in a particular way give rise to life. Life, is an emerging quality.
I am an individual human being whose thoughts, experiences, good intentions, sins, brokenness, faults, good deeds, misunderstandings, ignorance--and the like--interact in a particular way and--through the love of God, the grace of Jesus Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit--give rise a Christian. Thus, as a Christian, I am an emerging Christian. My faith, my commitment to God's Kingdom, is an emerging quality. On my best days, a Christian--a follower of Christ--emerges out of this hot mess....
Okay, that's the serious reflection. But Christian Piatt (one of my favorite bloggers), compiled a checklist of "you might be emergent if..." questions. Here's my shot.
1. The list of Christian bloggers you follow has more than five women with three names.
I don't follower too many bloggers. But of the two women bloggers I follow, both of them have three names.
2. The words “substitutionary atonement” cause reflexive sighs or eye rolls for you.
Yes.
3. You find you always use your fingers to make little air quotes when you use words like ‘salvation’ or ‘sin.’
Sort of. I'll take a half-point on that one.
4. Wild Goose is your new annual pilgrimage destination.
No, but I am intrigued. Alas, my "pilgrimage" site is usually just a bar.
5. You identify yourself as some hybrid of multiple denominational names, perhaps with a “-mergent” thrown on the end for good measure.
I am a member of Anglimergent, so....
6. You commonly use phrases like “some of my best friends are atheists,” or “that reminds me of what Zizek said about…”
I don't know about "commonly", but I have quoted Zizek 4 or 5 times in the last year, and I lots of friends who are atheists.
7. You know what “The Event” is.
Is that the show on NBC?
8. You can’t read an article by or about Mark Driscoll or John Piper without wanting to hurl your fair-trade soy latte at your MacBook.
I don't drink soy latte's or have a Macbook (yet), but yes....
9. You consider the fact that you’re a Christian to be more than a bit ironic.
Very yes.
10. You find yourself quoting Derrida in regular conversation.
No, not so much. But I think I play with his ideas more often than not.
11. You can fill in these names: ______ Pagitt; Nadia Bolz ______; _____ Caputo; _____ Rollins (no, not the guy from Black Flag).
Doug
Weber
John
Peter (although Henry's cool, too)
12. You have a bald head, facial hair and hipster glasses.
Uh.... And I wear black t-shirts so often that when I wore a red t-shirt recently (on the 4th of July), my kids asked me about it.
13. You prefer “faith community” over “congregation,” “gathering” instead of “worship” and you always hesitate self-consciously before using the word “church.”
No. Definitely no. I'm big on capital-"C" Church. The Church is Christ's hand and heart in the world. I spend a lot of time deconstructing (Derrida!?!) the word Church and trying to move away from Church-as-institution. So in some ways, I think this is an unfair question.
14. You cringe when God language (or any language about pretty much anything) is not gender-inclusive or gender-neutral.
A little. I have served traditional, Anglican/Episcopalian congregations (whoops), so this is usually a ditch to die in. I do use gender-neutral language, but not very often.
15. You use the words “authentic,” “context,” “ecclesial” or “metaphoric” more than two dozen times in an average day.
Probably.
16. You say things like “I don’t really preach any more…”
No, but I'm working on that....
17. You consider calling someone a “post-” something or “post-post-” something is a compliment.
Yeah, probably.
18. You answer every question with either another set of questions or a series of deep, reflective sighs.
Definitely.
19. Something just doesn't feel right unless you’re boycotting something.
I'm not a big boycott kinda guy. I don't even drink fair-trade coffee usually. I figure I should. Maybe the question should be amended to, "I feel guilty about not boycotting, etc." Then, yes.
20. You have any idea what “postcolonial hermeneutics” means.
Yep. I not because I have a Ph.D. in philosophy. Never heard of that kind of stuff until seminary. So there.
(From http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christianpiatt/2012/03/you-might-be-an-emergent-christian-if/)
----
I think I scored pretty high.
I might even prefer to talk about myself as an "emerging Christian" along the lines of the way philosophers of mind talk about consciousness as an emerging quality. Unconscious cells--or whatever--interacting in a particular way give rise to consciousness. Consciousness, some of them argue, is an emerging quality. Non-living things--chemicals, DNA, whatever--interacting in a particular way give rise to life. Life, is an emerging quality.
I am an individual human being whose thoughts, experiences, good intentions, sins, brokenness, faults, good deeds, misunderstandings, ignorance--and the like--interact in a particular way and--through the love of God, the grace of Jesus Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit--give rise a Christian. Thus, as a Christian, I am an emerging Christian. My faith, my commitment to God's Kingdom, is an emerging quality. On my best days, a Christian--a follower of Christ--emerges out of this hot mess....
Okay, that's the serious reflection. But Christian Piatt (one of my favorite bloggers), compiled a checklist of "you might be emergent if..." questions. Here's my shot.
1. The list of Christian bloggers you follow has more than five women with three names.
I don't follower too many bloggers. But of the two women bloggers I follow, both of them have three names.
2. The words “substitutionary atonement” cause reflexive sighs or eye rolls for you.
Yes.
3. You find you always use your fingers to make little air quotes when you use words like ‘salvation’ or ‘sin.’
Sort of. I'll take a half-point on that one.
4. Wild Goose is your new annual pilgrimage destination.
No, but I am intrigued. Alas, my "pilgrimage" site is usually just a bar.
5. You identify yourself as some hybrid of multiple denominational names, perhaps with a “-mergent” thrown on the end for good measure.
I am a member of Anglimergent, so....
6. You commonly use phrases like “some of my best friends are atheists,” or “that reminds me of what Zizek said about…”
I don't know about "commonly", but I have quoted Zizek 4 or 5 times in the last year, and I lots of friends who are atheists.
7. You know what “The Event” is.
Is that the show on NBC?
8. You can’t read an article by or about Mark Driscoll or John Piper without wanting to hurl your fair-trade soy latte at your MacBook.
I don't drink soy latte's or have a Macbook (yet), but yes....
9. You consider the fact that you’re a Christian to be more than a bit ironic.
Very yes.
10. You find yourself quoting Derrida in regular conversation.
No, not so much. But I think I play with his ideas more often than not.
11. You can fill in these names: ______ Pagitt; Nadia Bolz ______; _____ Caputo; _____ Rollins (no, not the guy from Black Flag).
Doug
Weber
John
Peter (although Henry's cool, too)
 |
| This is NOT a recent photo. |
Uh.... And I wear black t-shirts so often that when I wore a red t-shirt recently (on the 4th of July), my kids asked me about it.
13. You prefer “faith community” over “congregation,” “gathering” instead of “worship” and you always hesitate self-consciously before using the word “church.”
No. Definitely no. I'm big on capital-"C" Church. The Church is Christ's hand and heart in the world. I spend a lot of time deconstructing (Derrida!?!) the word Church and trying to move away from Church-as-institution. So in some ways, I think this is an unfair question.
14. You cringe when God language (or any language about pretty much anything) is not gender-inclusive or gender-neutral.
A little. I have served traditional, Anglican/Episcopalian congregations (whoops), so this is usually a ditch to die in. I do use gender-neutral language, but not very often.
15. You use the words “authentic,” “context,” “ecclesial” or “metaphoric” more than two dozen times in an average day.
Probably.
16. You say things like “I don’t really preach any more…”
No, but I'm working on that....
17. You consider calling someone a “post-” something or “post-post-” something is a compliment.
Yeah, probably.
18. You answer every question with either another set of questions or a series of deep, reflective sighs.
Definitely.
19. Something just doesn't feel right unless you’re boycotting something.
I'm not a big boycott kinda guy. I don't even drink fair-trade coffee usually. I figure I should. Maybe the question should be amended to, "I feel guilty about not boycotting, etc." Then, yes.
20. You have any idea what “postcolonial hermeneutics” means.
Yep. I not because I have a Ph.D. in philosophy. Never heard of that kind of stuff until seminary. So there.
(From http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christianpiatt/2012/03/you-might-be-an-emergent-christian-if/)
----
I think I scored pretty high.
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